Dr. Jeanne Drisko explores NanoVi, how it works and its role in integrative medicine
Dr. Jeanne Drisko, MD, has traveled the world learning about integrative and functional medicine therapies. It is to her credit that thousands of medical students have learned how to better use nutrition and nontraditional therapies to help their patients. She is the founding director of the University of Kansas Medical Center KU Integrative Medicine program.
In 2019, Dr. Drisko started her podcast, The Art and Soul of Healing, which teaches listeners about integrative and functional medicine and nutrition therapy. Recently, Dr. Drisko invited Eng3 CEO and NanoVi inventor Hans Eng to join her on the podcast. They discussed the origins of NanoVi, as well as its benefits and the scientific validation that supports the technology. Dr. Drisko has used NanoVi, which she describes on her website as „life changing.“
A personal medical mystery
Dr. Drisko first entered integrative and functional therapies after experiencing severe burnout in conventional medicine. After trying to figure out the source of her fatigue during this time—a period that would even involve a hospitalization—Dr. Drisko shared her experience with a colleague who had recently attended the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine (A4M)’s annual conference; he recommended Dr. Drisko try a few nutrients he had learned about there, and within a few weeks she was no longer fatigued. This experience led Dr. Drisko to investigate natural medicine on her own. From there, she went on to spend a year under the tutelage of Hugh Riordan MD, one of the grandfathers of functional and integrative medicine.
Dr. Drisko’s impact on integrative medicine
Dr. Drisko’s training with Dr. Riordan led her to the opportunity to create KU’s Integrative Medicine program, and to grow it over the next two decades. Despite skepticism from her colleagues in more „traditional“ fields, Dr. Drisko was able to create connections with other professors and doctors at KU who helped her make the program a success.
Dr. Drisko stepped down from her role at KU in 2018. She continues to educate through her podcast, The Art and Soul of Healing, which she started in 2019.
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Transcript of Dr. Drisko’s interview with Hans Eng
Dr. Jamie Drisko
[00:00:01] Hi, this is Jamie Drisko bringing you an episode of The Art and Soul of Healing. Today on the wings of Alliance for Natural Health, we will be visiting Hans Eng in Seattle, Washington at the Eng3 Corporation. Hans is an engineer with a degree from the Technical University of Berlin, and his background is in material sciences and proteomics. Hans has 25 plus years of experience with advanced medical technologies, and worked in research and development for multiple medical companies. Because of Hans background in material sciences and understanding of proteomics, he was able to develop the NanoVi line of products. I’m exploring the NanoVi devices today as a tool for detoxification, but there are many, many other uses. And I think you’ll find Hans discussion fascinating. Let’s welcome Hans Eng.
[00:01:08] Welcome Hans, to The Art and Soul of Healing.
Hans Eng
[00:01:14] Hello, thank you very much. Welcome. Yeah.
Dr. Jamie Drisko
[00:01:15] Well, Hans, your background is interesting. You have a background in material sciences with a degree in engineering from Technical University of Berlin. And you worked as a developer of medical devices for many years in Europe. What brought you to the US from Europe?
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Hans Eng
[00:01:35] Oh. What brought me to the US is complex. Several things brought me to the US. Number one is, I wanted to learn English. My English was absolutely not existing. And you mentioned that I worked in Germany in the field of medical devices. Yeah, I worked for Johson and Johnson in the Human Implant section. That means bone replacements, disc replacement, all those things. And I was in the department for R&D, for surface design, and for everything that implants are growing better in to our human system. So in this area, I was exposed to cell biology. Now, so what is actually is the growing factor? What is the tissue doing? And that exposed me to the entire field of proteomics, how do proteins work. And when I came to the US for studying the language, I didn’t have this job to do. And I was more interesting to go back to work, because it is always a challenging thing for me to go in new areas. And because of my background of the protein function, I was knowing that the most important thing in our body is to keep the protein function in a proper working situation. If they do not work, so proteins, then we run into all kinds of problems, because they are the workhorses in our body. And they are orchestrating the entire biochemical system in our body. So I was looking into this area, how the protein function could get saved or getting improved. And that will lead to the pattern development, looking at all these areas which are related in the biological field. Until it then evolved, we had some preliminary testing studies, and we created the first prototypes, well see the prototypes into the next session here. So it was a long, more than 10-year development process.
Dr. Jamie Drisko
I was going to ask you about that. Well, you have a wonderful company Eng3, and you have the NanoVi Eco, NanoVi Pro and the NanoVi Exo. And before we get into the science of these devices, I want you to describe some of the benefits seen by different clients that you serve, as maybe just to an athlete and a person interested in aging, healthy aging, and then we’ll explore the science.
Hans Eng
[00:04:26] Yes, yeah. Both of these very far away groups, the athletes, the aging group is usually a little bit older, they have one thing in common. Their entire system depends on the protein function. So an athlete would like to have the protein function on the maximum peak in his age group that he is. And he also knows that if he puts all the demand on his body, that he damages proteins, and loses the peak. So he’s interested in, how can you recover fast enough to be back on the starting point. So, that is what the athlete is. So, the age person; he is like an athlete, he went through a long period of life…. Living is an athletic process, we could say. And you accumulate damages over longer period, similar to the damage that the athletes accumulate. If the damage is continuous, you lose protein function. The lost protein function in an aging person is being recognized very often as an age related disorder, beside what is also recognized simply as a loss of performance. So, by addressing protein function, the older person’s interest is to re-boost the performance that they have, and to avoid chronic disorders, because these are nothing else than the lost protein function. So, they have both the same intention, that’s the athlete and the older person. The older person, really old person, sometimes have already chronic disorders, all kinds of chronic disorders are caused by lost protein function, or how it also is phrased, is caused by oxidative stress, because we are losing the protein function. Because oxidative stress, free radicals are damaging the proteins. And when they cannot do their work, then certain things are simply not working anymore.So that is because we live; we always inhale air, we always need ATP production that will always lead to free radical production.
Dr. Jamie Drisko
[00:06:56] Let’s back up to the proteins first. So proteins are manufactured by ourselves, and they need to be correctly folded into specific shapes for them to work in our bodies. How did you come to the insight that water could be helpful in this process?
Hans Eng
[00:07:13] That water is a major key player, is not actually our invention. That water is the most important part and it is known and postulated since more than 50 years, almost since 100 years. Because there’s nothing else around the protein than water, it cannot be a chemical reaction, because there is no chemical reaction. It is for all living species that we know, the same thing. Proteins exist only in water, they require water. That’s for example, the reason when we look for a life on a different other planet, we look for water. We cannot look for a protein, because we can only look for something that we know. If there’s an unknown protein, we would never find it, but we know that no protein can exist without water. So, that is nothing that we invented. The only thing, we were looking in water properties that we know today. And there is a lot of knowledge, science out about water, say in physics. There is another area, Enzymes, where some ideas about water properties are here, but the part that is in physics known is also known since more than 40 years.
And then we started to work with University here in Washington. They are kind of leading department in bioengineering about water science. And we could bring together a lot of different knowledge and approaches. That was very helpful for now to explain, revise, to do certain research in other universities and to intensify the distribution of the knowledge, what we have out here.
Dr. Jamie Drisko
[00:09:17] That’s so interesting. And then you talk about this process, is needing ordered water. What exactly is ordered water?
Hans Eng
[00:09:26] Yeah. Ordered water describes a certain kind of state of entropy. So entropy describes a situation between components; ordered or unordered. These kind of thermodynamic laws are known, they are valid in the entire universe, we do know it. For example, if there is a change from an unordered state into an ordered state, it is an unfavored change, it will always go in the other direction, if those things happen.
So, in chemistry that is a part of the constant used, it is around our daily life, the change of entropy happens. For water, that means if water molecules are getting in a lower state of entropy, they are going into a higher order, which means that the molecules are pushed a little bit closer together, and they take a different other shape, and this higher order is possible to measure at water, it happens only on surfaces, thin layers of surface, and there are a lot of very specific attributes. It is denser, it has a different absorption rate of electromagnetic energy, it emits a different order electromagnetic energy that has a different pH value, and also things. You can really measure this state, but it is only on a very thin layer on surface. You cannot have, as I say, a glass of water that is all ordered. If so, you would also recognize that it would be heavier, because the density is higher. So, that is ordered water.
How does water get into the state to be ordered? That is also one of the next steps that is now known, and was researched the last 20 years. And we can now address it, and that is what we do with our technology. We exactly follow this knowledge here, that at the end, we have ordered water on surfaces.
Dr. Jamie Drisko
[00:11:49] As an engineer and developer of medical devices, how did you come to the understanding of using reactive oxygen species as a way to create this ordered water? That was a really great intellectual leap. I was very curious about that.
Hans Eng
[00:12:06] So we looked at everything that we know, what is necessary is that water gets into the ordered state on surface. And that is the same water in material science. Water is the material, and we know that when water gets into this magnet, it receives a certain kind of electromagnetic energy. This electromagnetic energy is not always around us. So we were looking, where is it? Maybe in our body, maybe we produce it in our own body. And we found out that a very specific reactive oxygen species is actually the so called an excited oxygen species. And that has to admit its fingerprint of electromagnetic energy. That is what in physics happens always. If you have an excited atom, the atom will emit its excitement energy, which is electromagnetic energy into the environment.
And this very, very specific free radical is doing exactly this. Before it starts to do other things, it has to emit its energy. And that is one source of the energy that is producing or will lead to ordered water in the cell. So that is it. Then what we tried next, can we produce the same kind of energy outside? So we called it during the first period, we called it a bioidentical energy.
Dr. Jamie Drisko
[00:13:36] Yes, I saw you use that term.
Hans Eng
[00:13:39] Yeah. So we use the bioidentical energy added to the humidity that you inhale. When you are connected to the humidity, our body is basically a big cloud, then this exposed humidity will affect our body. And we did two studies and we see, yeah, we affect the body. That was a primary thing. The next step, we said, if that works, what is going on is even more potent electromagnetic energy is that we were able to produce technology from the technology term, and we started studies compared to this one. And now we are already out and incorporate in our technologies the third wavelengths that is even more potent than the previous wavelengths.
Dr. Jamie Drisko
[00:14:29] So this is really exciting to understand this technology, and have it lead to the development of the NanoVi. How long did it take you to develop a working prototype that you were satisfied with?
Hans Eng
[00:14:43] Oh, the working prototype for testing?
Dr. Jamie Drisko
[00:14:47] Yes.
Hans Eng
[00:14:48] That took maybe half a year to produce.
Dr. Jamie Drisko
[00:14:52] Ah. That’s not bad.
Hans Eng
[00:14:54] Yeah. But the testing prototypes never setups how finally your product will look like. Yeah. And in the testing period, you have far more refined testing equipments, you can see differences here, but in as a final product, you would like to have more performance levels in the device. So you would like that people recognize that, people feel the impact. So we started at first with the smallest device, was the Echo that you mentioned, then we figured out that we can double the output of say, electromagnetic energy that is emitted to the humidity in the device, so that was a pro. And then we had another possibility in the technology jump, and we could double this output again to the Exo device. At first, we never had the Exo device, so that came far later. Now, we are working on the technologies that are now out there, they have all three different wavelengths. At first, the bio-identical, then we go then to the next higher step. And there is a certain wavelength that we are now using, is two times as potent as the first wavelength. So we could ramp up the performance levels of the devices, what we always did is we gave an update option to the customers where we said, if you bought this in a timeframe of one year in the past, where we couldn’t have these new device, we give you the update options that you can have the most performant technology in your device without any additional costs.
Dr. Jamie Drisko
[00:16:36] When you state that ordered water is required for proteins to fold and it’s a key aspect of our cells activity, how does this NanoVi work to create the ordered water? I’ve seen the device, I’ve used it, but maybe you should describe. It’s a unit that sits on the desktop, and maybe describe it a bit.
Hans Eng
[00:16:58] Right. I will start from our inside of the body. So, the proteins are floating in the water of our cells. Our cells are very, very small, extremely small, and they are sometimes up to 10,000 of proteins in there, these are very, very small components. Because of the cellular structure of our body, we are similar to a cloud, and not to a bucket of water. So we are basically a huge bag of humidity. And every humidity that is exposed to this through our mucous membrane, our lung surface, our mouth, our nose, is becoming part of this body. To affect the proteins in this cloud, we had to find a way to extend our cloud into a device. So the device basically becomes the inside of the body, becomes part of the cloud. So now we have only to expose the humidity that the device creates with electromagnetic energy. Electromagnetic energy creates in this humanity is also called coherent domains. And these coherent domains are then going like, say, like a sound wave or like a wave through the entire body of humidity that is connected with each other. And so we have to do it only in the device, but it will affect the entire humidity cloud that is built in connection to the device.
Dr. Jamie Drisko
[00:18:47] Can I recap that? Let’s just see if I’ve got this correct. So, the NanoVi device, water as humidity is in the air stream and it passes through absorbable electromagnetic energy. Then these water droplets are absorbed through the different energies as layers of ordered water, and they form droplets on the surface. And when these droplets are inhaled, I use a little nasal cannula, they make contact with the mucous membranes and ultimately influence water throughout the entire body. And have you used research to advise these claims?
Hans Eng
[00:19:32] What we do in a research part is different several steps. The first thing is we have to prove that we are actually emitting this specific electromagnetic energy and not something different. So that was done. The next thing is we have to prove that the humidity, when it comes out of the device and it hits a petri dish for example, where we have a little surfaces in, now that on the surfaces, the ordered water is being built. So that is done also with institutes and universities, they put a little specific test species in there that are only reacting on this thing. The petri dish is being exposed to the humidity. And under a microscope, they can see that on those little surfaces, the ordered water is being built. So the next step is then to do is a tests, instead of with little specimens, with little proteins in a petri dish. So the proteins are far smaller, and we cannot see the proteins on a microscope, how they build the surface up. What we know is that if the proteins are being, say, coated with the surface, they start to fold and to act better. So what we did is, we take the proteins, we damage the proteins. Now we know they’re unfolded. That is for example, with heat or with something else, then we expose the humanity to it, and we can see that the protein activity is being reinstalled, and starts again. So we see that ordered water…. And that’s not only what we see, that is also research studies. They see that ordered water effects a protein function. And the only way to effect support is by their folding, because we are not creating new proteins that is what the RNA is doing. That is absolutely not something that we can do. So our important claim is, we admit this treated humidity that will lead on surfaces, the buildup of ordered water. So that is the claim, and that is what we have to show in studies at all different other levels.
Dr. Jeanne Drisko
[00:22:03] Your universities that you’ve affiliated with a really impressive.
Hans Eng
[00:22:08] We do it in universities and institutes in different countries. Not to have a wider spread. That also is related to the situation that the universities or the community that researches in this area is not huge. And there are international meetings and you meet with other universities on those congresses and then you try to find experts in a certain area that you can work with, if they can, who are interested to work with us on this topic.
Dr. Jeanne Drisko
[00:22:42] Yeah. It’s always a challenge to find the right researchers.
Hans Eng
[00:22:46] Yeah, it’s very, very international. Yeah.
Dr. Jeanne Drisko
[00:22:49] Yes, I want to go back to this mucous membrane. I got interested in NanoVi as a detoxification tool. And my personal experience is that when I inhaled ordered water, I would actually feel it in my tympanic membranes, my ear drums. I don’t know if anybody else has ever said that, but I felt like there was a systemic effect. And the first time I use the NanoVi, I only used it for 3 minutes. The woman that runs the equipment is reluctant to have people go full bore first time. And I did detox, I did have a detox reaction. So I think it’s a wonderful tool on many levels. But I have a question about some of the effects of the NanoVi. You’re saying it does cause reactive oxygen species to form, but it’s a special type.
Hans Eng
[00:23:53] Yeah, no. We are not doing anything with reactive oxygen species here. We only look in the past what our reactive oxygen species are doing, and they are a source of electromagnetic energy. And we use their electromagnetic energy to go forward. Reactive oxygen species are being formed in our cells, in the mitochondria, in the moment when we breathe and produce ATP. As more oxygen we inhale for the ATP production, as more free radicals we produce. An unavoidable process for all aerobic life systems.
Dr. Jeanne Drisko
[00:24:33] Absolutely. And so you really wouldn’t want to use a lot of antioxidants to mop it up because some of those signals, well, they’re signaling molecules, is that correct?
Hans Eng
[00:24:45] Yeah, today we know that the free radicals are not only having a bad component, they have a lot of very important components. They are very often, you said mob up, I would say they are even more, they are the police in our system in so many areas. They are part of our immune defense system, they are part of our inflammation system, they are part of our self-healing system. Cellular apoptosis is being finally initiated and executed by free radicals. So, I love my free radicals, I have to say. The other thing is, some of them are damaging the proteins. That is part of the life. And we are focused more, how can we reestablish the damaged proteins without stopping breathing. So we would like still to do our things, athletes would like to still metabolize, far more than 100 times oxygen than non-athletes, and the person who lived for many, many years and metabolized a lot of oxygen in their life, they also would like to have more lifetime in front of them. But therefore, athlete people, non-athlete people need their protein function and we are only interested to reestablish the protein function.
Dr. Jeanne Drisko
[00:26:10] So if I’m correct, NanoVi has its biological effects by repair of protein damage.
Hans Eng
[00:26:16] Yes.
Dr. Jeanne Drisko
[00:26:18] And this increases our body’s ability to use oxygen, improve cellular energy production and improve vitality, I guess. Is that correct?
Hans Eng
[00:26:28] At the end, we produce vitality because we have to look a little bit closer, what are proteins? Proteins are enzymes, proteins are hormones, proteins are…. In every part of any biochemical reaction, proteins are the initiator, the executers, the catalysts. And if one of those things is broken, we do not have this biophysical process anymore. Like you, for example, you mentioned detoxification. Detoxification process is a complex biochemical process that is controlled, initiated, and stopped, and all those things, by proteins. And if one of those members is damaged, then the detoxification doesn’t work anymore. So when that is being reestablished, a lot of people can recognize this part. With all these around, we assume that our body has 900,000 different proteins. Most of their function, we do not feel. Some of them, we feel, and very often the detoxification processes, we could recognize. The energy production; vitality is very important. The other ATP production is an enzymatic reaction. Enzymes are controlling this process. If those enzymes got damaged, then we do not produce enough ATP anymore. Lack of energy, fatigue and also things are the result. So we would like to improve all these different proteins.
Dr. Jeanne Drisko
[00:28:07] And how do you think it strengthens the immune system?
Hans Eng
[00:28:11] The immune system is also complex, complex area. We either pick some of these out, we nowadays learn or know far more about those things like antibodies. Antibodies are proteins, antibodies are being formed in the cells
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