Years of clinical experience with NanoVi enables Caspar Szulc to deliver an especially insightful interview with Rowena Gates.
The format of Caspar Szulc’s podcast is to tell a story. This gives the listener the whole picture rather than separate responses to questions that could leave gaps. This podcast format mirrors Caspar’s approach to healing, which is highly individualized and factors in each person’s story.
For the last 16 years Casper has worked to transform medicine from a one size fits all approach to highly personalized integrative care. Caspar works to educate and empower patients in his role as President and Co-Founder of a company called Innovative Medicine. As a forerunner on the integration of innovative technology with medicine, Caspar believes that “we are right on the cusp of this vertical leap in medicine, health, and longevity”.
Caspar Szulc also oversees the New York Center for Innovative Medicine (NYCIM), which attracts people from all over the world. NYCIM patients benefit from a complex evaluation system combined with a wide range of customized treatment options. The NanoVi device has contributed to patient outcomes at NYCIM for many years. In this podcast Caspar Szulc explores NanoVi technology and offers his insights on its clinical use.
Transcript: The Story of NanoVi with Rowena Gates by the IM Health Team
Caspar (00:00):
I had a very strange childhood… I had the worst case any doctor had ever seen… my job is to keep healing… So that’s the story. We all have remarkable stories within stories of adversity, challenges, trials, and ultimately, healing. This is your health, your story, the podcast.
Caspar (00:22):
I always find it fascinating when we apply science technology and natural healing arts. We’re so brainwashed to think that science and nature or technology and holistic healing can’t work together. But from what I’ve seen, traveling the world for decades, searching for healing methods, the greatest breakthroughs come from their unity. That’s why I’m really excited to have on today’s guest. If you’ve ever seen any of my pictures on Instagram. One of my favorite places to work is the IV chair at our center, the New York center for innovative medicine. That’s where I’m normally using this device to optimize my mitochondrial function and balance my autonomic nervous system. But without further delay, this is the story of NanoVi with Rowena Gates.
Caspar (01:05):
There’s a great story to NanoVi and so much I want to learn about there, but I want to start with you because as I understand, you’re a serial entrepreneur. You have this PhD in international strategic alliances and economic development. So how did you get from that to being involved with this healing tech company and now pushing this to the world?
Rowena (01:26):
It’s kind of ridiculous. My first company was in 1995 internet-based — business to business in international trade and logistics. And I stayed in that field up until about 2005. And then I had a couple of companies, the last one I’d worked for. There’d been a buyout and I I’d worked for them a couple of years and I’d planned to take some time off and I thought, okay, a nice break. But then I offered to help Hans Eng who’s my partner, and he was just kind of getting going. And he’s German. His English was really very different than it is today. And so I was more and more involved in it and handling more and more things. And then I realized that this is, this is really cool because it helps people and this is way more fun than logistics and documentation for international shipments. And so I just kind of stayed. I thought I’d be there a couple months and just have like take some time. And I, just kept going and going.
Caspar (02:34):
That’s usually how it is. You start in the rabbit hole saying, this will be only a little bit of time. Next thing you know, you’re deep into it, it’s years later.
Rowena (02:43):
Exactly. That’s exactly what happened and it’s many years later because during all of that time, we developed the whole of NanoVi technology. It was developed from the late 2008ish in there, up until the present. And so it’s a long run to get a device to market and all the compliance and all of that, there’s challenges to it. So it’s been fun.
Caspar (03:08):
I can imagine there’s a lot of challenges to it because you’re, you’re talking about technology, advanced technology you’re talking, you’re still in the medical or health world, wellness world. And, and this is technology that truly is something different. You’re not copying anyone else’s and working off a blueprint, you kind of started with, from scratch here. So I want you to tell us a little bit, now switching over, about the NanoVi device, because it looks beautiful when it’s lit up and it’s very Instagram worthy. I’ve been posting about it, but what precisely is this tech doing what’s going on inside that is allowing it to have this healing regenerative effect on people?
Rowena (03:46):
Well, for anybody who hasn’t seen that on Instagram, there’s bubbling water on top of the device in a container and that’s creating humidity and the humidity is run through the internal components of the device or the important part, which is essentially an activation or excitation of the water droplets in the air stream. And it’s changing the nature of them. And then ultimately when that is inhaled to the body, it helps change the nature of the cellular water in a way that creates a better environment for protein- folding. And so when I say change the nature, that’s kind of hedging, but what that really is, is it’s creating what’s called ordered water, or the water molecules are more closely packed together. And so that ordered water is what proteins rely on for their folding process. So the protein is going from being an unfolded chain of amino acids into a folded complex three-dimensional shape and to get the energy for that, it draws on the cellular water. And so the protein becomes ordered, the water loses some of its order, and then the body is constantly recharging the water. And so what we’re doing is we’re augmenting that recharging of the water.
Caspar (05:11):
Right so in many ways, it’s an activation, it’s an energization almost of, of molecules that are then inhaled correctly as, once they get activated, once they’re going. So what are they doing? So that’s, what’s happening with the technology? What is it doing within the body then? So you’re inhaling it.
You’re just sitting there, there’s no smell or anything. It’s basically you feel a little breeze. If you have the nasal or a little breeze coming out where you’re breathing in and you’re just sitting there and you’re simply breathing, but what’s going on inside of you while you’re doing that?
Rowena (05:42):
So the key is that the humidity from the device touches the mucus membrane. And then once it’s inside the body, there’s an energy state that transfers through the body very quickly called ultra fast transfer. It’s very fast and good way to think of it is, you know, the physics toy where you hold one ball up and the other end goes up, it’s crossing over the water in the body like that rather than being diffused like a, a chemical might be the way it works in the body. It doesn’t matter where it is, which is if it’s respiratory or your foot, it’s going to have about the same impact. And so it’s because of the way the water molecules in the body are connected. 99% of the molecules in the body are water. And it’s the home for everything. All the proteins are immersed in it. And so on. So the water is really this key underlying structure in the body. And so when we changed the nature of it, that energy state that you talked about, and for people that are interested, it’s called entropy because it’s not energy like heat or light that we think of, but it goes from being chaotic to being organized, that’s entropy. And so we’re making it a little less chaotic, a little more ordered, and then that’s what supporting all those cellular activities.
Caspar (07:08):
And it’s really Interesting because you’re talking about water and I always thought of it, of course, as an oxygen type-therapy, cause you’re breathing it and I, you don’t normally associate breathing water, right? But when you break down the molecules, oxygen is always there in the two elements are there. So essential without air, of course are the, you know, we can only last few minutes. Water also it’s 60, 70% of us. So in a sense, you’re combining these two very essential elements for life critical elements, and you’re activating so many things within. And I want to get into that a little bit because one of the things that we noticed in, I definitely studied in my time here at the medical centers, mitochondrial health. And so, you know, as I see it, you know, you look at the mitochondrial aging theory and reactive oxygen species, which is very important within the NanoVi. I always see that ROS reactive oxygen, when you guys are writing about what this does, and that of course is a free radical, which can damage mitochondrial DNA and that leads to aging. So what is NanoVi doing to combat this?
Rowena (08:13):
Well, it’s interesting because there’s these two aspects of ROS that I’m just going to touch on quickly, because it is part of an explanation of how our technology works, because ROS are certain reactive oxygen species, all of them do damage, but some of them are also signaling molecules. So they’re initiating other activities in the body, and this is all cell biology, but that’s how we learned what to do. So as specific reactive oxygen species emits a very specific wavelength that the body relies on to energize that water for protein folding. And so we’re mimicking that wavelength without the potential of the free radical side of it, which is the damaging component. And so it’s part of that, the wonder of the body where so many things are both good and bad, you know, it’s really good, but if there’s too much of it, it’s really bad kind of thing. And this is one of those balances where the reactive oxygen species do the damage and they also initiate the repair of the damage.
Caspar (09:16):
So there’s a signaling going on, correct?
Rowena (09:19):
Yeah. So we just mimic the repair side of it. It is a signaling molecule in this case, it’s, it’s helping to change the nature of the water. And so the exact same wavelength that is emitted by the free radical is what we emit into the water to create this ordered water. But then we made it better because for everything we do, we have a lot of science and a lot of testing, it looks pretty and all that, but there’s a huge amount of science behind it. And so we were doing testing to show that there’s other wavelengths that can influence the water even more powerfully. And so we added that to the original, which was mimicking the reactive oxygen species. We added to it a more potent wavelength essentially. So we were able to increase the output from the device so that the person got a better, got more at the end of it.
Caspar (10:20):
That’s really interesting. And I think once you say researcher and science, ears perk up, especially when you’re talking anything alternative integrative medicine, health wellness, because unfortunately most of the science goes into the conventional realm. And that’s where you hear a lot of the research and data comes out of to try and prove things or disprove them. Can you go a little bit into what type of scientific data and research or do you know, what are you even looking for in biomarkers? Cause it is a different, I would say, end game to it. Whereas in conventional medicine, of course, you’re trying to manipulate
things and actually force reactions within the body. Whereas this isn’t a forceful type of reaction you’re trying to heal and regenerate.
Rowena (11:02):
So from our side, the research side of it, there’s two areas. One is on the device itself to make sure it’s doing what we believe it’s doing, to prove that. And to prove that what’s coming out of it is what we say is coming out of it. And there’s actually quite a lot of science verifying the technology itself. And then the more interesting side for most of us, the impact it has either on cells in vitro or on proteins or on the body itself. And so there’s a range of studies. There is testing that’s done that’s double-blinded placebo controlled, which everybody likes to hear. Even though a lot of us are like, yeah, you know, you don’t have to hit that standard, but Oh, if you do hit that standard, I’m kind of glad you do.
Rowena (11:50):
So we’ve got that research. And then we’ve also got things like DNA testing for double strand DNA damage, which is the difficult damage when both strands are broken and looking at the amount of repair with, or without the NanoVi device.
Caspar (12:10):
And what are those results showing you?
Rowena (12:12):
Those range from the double strand damage, the measurements called a foci, but it’s the points of damage that they can count were between 15 and 35% lower when the NanoVi device was part of the regime versus when it wasn’t. A lot of variation. And so some people are much more vulnerable to that damage than others. And that’s one thing about our device in general, and you might’ve noticed this clinically is some people that will just have a dramatic impact. You know, they’re buzzing with energy or whatever. And then other people they’re like, Oh, that feels good, but it’s not such a big deal. And it’s because the device only helps the body do what the body needs to do and everybody’s different. And some people have acute needs or some people are sort of close to the edge or the threshold and you can click them over and suddenly they have great mental clarity and they’re just, you know, so focused and, and then for other people it’s more of a continuum and they’ll notice it over time, but they might not have as big an impact the first time they use it.
Caspar (13:25):
It’s so true. And again, this is the core of everything we do is personalization. And yes, you are different person to person, of course. But some people, you know, while obtained while getting this, and we usually have them, regardless of any therapy they’re doing IV, whether it’s another oxidative therapy, they’re — they’re hooked up. You know, we have four or five of these always going and everyone’s getting their NanoVi treatments. But what are, what are some, you said some, feel the energy, some feel a little bit of a cognitive boost or mental acuity. What are some other things that people are feeling just for someone who’s wondering, what can I possibly feel from all of this that you’re talking about in the science and data?
Rowena (14:06):
You mean that I can talk about
Caspar (14:08):
That you can talk yes. That that is not healing, not treating, not diagnosing that, that whole statement written statement.
Rowena (14:16):
The biggest one is probably sleep where people notice they, Oh, I just slept like a rock and that’s balanced in the autonomic nervous system. And that’s another one that you can do so easily as measuring heart rate variability. And you interviewed Michael Kessler about heart rate variability previously.
Caspar (14:33):
I did indeed. It goes hand in hand, right?
Rowena (14:37):
Yes totally. See they get it. And that’s an easy way to kind of gauge the impact of the NanoVi because people will settle and their autonomic nervous system will come back into balance. They relax, take them out of the stress mode. That’s just so important in general, for everything else – for immunity and everything else you’re trying to do. So that’s an easy one to measure. And it’s an easy one for a lot of people to see change because by and large we’re overstressed.
Caspar (15:06):
Absolutely and I have to say, you know, you brought this up. It was, it was something I want to hit on, that autonomic nervous system. So overlooked by most people, most people don’t even quite understand what a ANS automated nervous system they just hear „ah it’s my nervous system,“ whatever. It is basically it runs so much that fight or flight response will cause inflammation, lower immune everything. So we’re such big proponents of seeing, are you balanced or not? That is one of our core principles. When you come in and we’re looking at heart rate variability, all the other things. And nowadays, like you mentioned, you have access to these HRVs and an Oura ring or other, you know, apps even do this, probably not as well as, as the advanced systems, but you can measure how the NanoVi is actually working. And you can measure that through the heart rate variability and through analysis of parasympathetic versus sympathetic nervous system. And of course, sleep is so important.
And I think it is one of the overlooked things in society right now is, is, Oh, and the quality of sleep too, because you could get sleep. And so many people are taking their sleeping pills and different things and melatonin and all of that. But unless it’s true regenerative sleep in a parasympathetic state, it’s incredibly hard to heal and regenerate all these things. So NanoVi is absolute, you’re saying that’s one of the top things you’ll see is better quality of sleep.
Rowena (16:27):
Yeah. And one of the reasons you’d get better outcomes in a clinical setting. If you just put it with everybody, for that balance in the autonomic nervous system, because often people are either just generally stressed or if they’re ill, it’s especially stressful. And so just bringing them back into balance a little bit will make everything else you’re doing work better, including the conversations that are being held, because it just puts people in a better frame of mind. And then of course, on the other side that it’s, it’s complimentary to if it’s an IV drip or whatever, you want the protein function to optimize that as best you can and get better use out of any other treatment that you’re doing.
Caspar (17:10):
And that’s really interesting cause we always do it. Like I mentioned, with an IV push or an oxidative treatment, whether that’s ozone therapy, UVB, ultraviolet blood irradiation, hydrogen peroxide therapy, there’s other ones, but the patient usually does ask, wait a second, am I getting too much? How does this differ? You know, I’m getting this and this, and can you go into that a little bit on how it may differ as an oxidative therapy and how it is complimentary and not sort of, I would say, either you know, overriding it or giving too much?
Rowena (17:42):
In combination with oxidative therapies, it’s like a, a hand in glove, it’s a great match because oxidative therapies, not surprisingly, do oxidation. And so the NanoVi is a great way to go, the repair of oxidative damage is all done by proteins. So by supporting protein function, you repair the oxidative damage faster, then you’re just getting the good side and you’re mitigating the downside of things. And so they’re great combinations in some areas it’s interesting because just improving protein function, you can get better oxygenation in the blood, for example, by only doing that without adding concentrated oxygen. And so in some respects, it helps like an oxygen therapy, but it really just augments any of them. Like if it’s hyperbarics or ozone or whatever they’re doing, you get more oxygen in the system and then you get the system working better. And so that utilization is really important and you can see that in mitochondrial function. So if you can improve the mitochondrial function, you know, that you’re working the oxygen, you’re getting better utilization basically.
Caspar (18:58):
And again, it’s the reason that we see, and again, we’re not doing this to just say, Oh, you should go on it, which we do believe that, but we’re doing, we’re actually testing a parameter. We’re seeing if a person is calling for it in a sense if their body requires it and almost everyone does, I don’t think there’s been someone where maybe you shouldn’t do this. Yes. It’s incredibly complimentary to all the therapies we have at our clinic. And every clinic, you know, out there should be doing that. But you know, you have these different types of users. We’re talking more about the patients, but NanoVi, I know is used by biohackers. It’s used by Olympians, athletes, right? What was it that, you know, that kind of, because this is a little bit of a gap, I find medicine and athletics and performance enhancing. So what is it that you think NanoVi is bridging the gap? Let me say between those twos, because normally a medical device, or this is, and I should say medical, but used in medicine would not be used, let’s say by an athlete, but everyone’s using this, right? Tell me a little bit about the experience of those in the athletic performance and basically biohacking realm. How have they reacted to this?
Rowena (20:10):
Well, it’s the same in both, there are sort of three Rs, resilience, regeneration recovery, and both medically and athletes. They both need that, but some of the athletes acutely need the recovery. That’s their career in a way, for these professional athletes it is how well they recover that determines their longevity or how well they perform. And so it’s a really big factor and that’s the biggest driver of why professional athletes will invest in it. But it’s interesting. We talked about sleep earlier and we have athletes that, you know, they have this acute need for recovery, but what they care about is sleep. One of them used it and said, I just slept like a baby so I bought my own device. You know, the first time he used it, it is because they’re traveling all the time. And there it’s a lot of stress and strain on these guys.
Caspar (21:08):
Is that right after one time, you’re going to feel that difference? I understand for, you know, a patient may require a little bit more as they go through a process, but are you seeing that in athletes?
Rowena (21:19):
Yes, beause he had an acute need, right? This was a baseball picture and they they’re playing at night and then they’re wired up and they can’t go to sleep and they’re traveling and it’s just a really, really challenging schedule those guys have. And so I would expect that for all of them. Oh, and there’s another one too actually in New York, the big maple, but he also mentioned sleep as being a really big factor for him.
Caspar (21:51):
You could always go back to that’s where we recover. That is where we regenerate. It’s not during the day it’s during the night, so that that’s probably so important to get that quality of sleep up. And that is great. That again, you’re, you’re showing it in the medical base, which is wonderful. We’re seeing it, clinicians are seeing the improvement and then you’re also showing it in that, you know, the, the best performers on earth, basically people that are trying to live to 180 are trying to perform these feats that are incredible and using this technology to do that. That’s really an amazing feat.
Rowena (22:25):
And then one of my favorite ones, just quickly, on the mental performance side, it’s a huge difference for an athlete. And so that mental sharpness is your brain is a huge user of oxygen. If you’re concentrating, then it’s like running a marathon, you have a lot going on. And so repairing quickly and supporting the brain is a big deal to athletes.
Caspar (22:51):
It’s a big deal to everyone, right? Because nowadays we wrote an article, the, the art of focus, basically making the point that it’s not time that is the greatest resource we have. We all have 24 hours a day that doesn’t change. It’s how we can stay focused for periods of time. You know, nowadays our focus is what only seven or eight seconds on social media is all you have. And then you have all these different things and you’re all vying for that focus. And it kind of leaves you a little bit all over the place, but to stay in what Cal Newport says, that deep-work state of true focus, that’s where you could really make leaps and bounds.
Rowena (23:27):
So I have a great example of that for you. It’s in endurance race car drivers. Their stint will be about an hour and they are making a life important decision every second to two and a half seconds. And so the focus is just incredible in what these people do. That’s one of my favorite, you know, customers, I mean, I’m a huge fan. I’m not even a race car person, but I became one because it’s so amazing, what they do. And they rely on it very heavily for that concentration and focus on the NanoVi.
Caspar (24:03):
The thing is now we do require more than ever. And we had a, a patient also who was using NAD also along with Nadovim for improved mitochondrial function. And it helps the brain as well. And they were a professional skydiver. And you know, that, that also, you know, when they’re doing formations and
things may go wrong and it’s not for long periods, but she said that the clarity she got from that, from the combination NanoVi Nadovim, we use NAD drips, was amazing. It really took her to a new level of being able to be so focused for such a short time almost, but hyper-focused and improving that ability and then resting regenerating after that. Cause there’s a huge adrenaline rush. Of course, all of these different things you need to balance the autonomic nervous system once more. So that was really interesting too.
Rowena (24:51):
Yeah. And it’s interesting. One of these race car drivers used to be a professional skydiver photographer and both of them have done over a thousand dives. It’s like, there’s something about these people.
Caspar (25:03):
The adrenaline junkies, right? But the adrenaline junkies are the ones pushing limits. And you got to say, when you’re pushing limits in the body, you got to go out there, do your research, find a way to allow it to do that. Cause the body under the normal circumstances has its breaking points. You want to optimize it. And I think that’s why I always said, there’s really not much of a difference between optimization of health and healing. You’re all moving in the right direction. It’s away from disease basically. And getting the cells to optimize, getting yourself in a place where everything’s functioning as it should to its highest degree. And that’s why things like NanoVi are really such an important part. I think of not just the, you know, in a medical clinic, but also out there for anyone who really wants to push their performance. Now, is there such thing as too much, is there such thing as side effects here because everyone says, this sounds great. Like most of medicine sounds great until you read all the side effects and then see if you take one pill too many, you’ll end up with a, you know, some kind of very long term disability. So tell me about that side effects you know, duration of how long can you,
Rowena (26:14):
You cannot overuse it in a way that could be harmful. However, it could reach a point where your body just doesn’t need any more of that. So then you’re, you’re sitting there for an, you know, an extra hour or whatever that it actually, isn’t going to do much more for the body or you really start to get diminishing returns. There’s two areas that you would probably come across as a clinician. If you have people that are highly toxic. And I know you treat a lot of Lyme, so you’re watching out for that all the time. Then they may need to start slowly because it does support detoxification and you don’t want to overload their elimination channels. And I’ll bet you’re balancing that every day of the week.
Caspar (26:57):
We absolutely are very familiar with that. Especially if you’re going through an anti-
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